Transcript:

Dr. Ngare

If we are going to discuss the right to life, the letters discuss the right to life of both the baby, and the mother. Both of them have a right to life. And therefore, the Mother cannot decide when to kill the pre-born person, just like she can’t decide when to kill her own child.

Dr. Morse

Right

Dr. Ngare

The section on reproductive health and rights is actually an ideology. It is an ideology, it is a culture. It believes that sex is for pleasure, and everyone should be able to experience it. From children at 4 or 5 years of age. It is being used to sexualize children, it is being used to legalize homosexuality. They want to legalize prostitution. They want children as young as 10 to use contraceptives. And a whole lot of stuff that is completely against what we stand for, even in the constitution.

Dr. Morse

Hi Everyone, I am Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse, founder and president of the Ruth Institute and welcome to today’s episode of the Dr. J Show. Today I have a very special guest. Dr. Wahome Ngare an OBGYN from Kenya. He is also associated with the Kenyan Catholic Dr.’s Association and he has some very important information for us about public policy going on in Kenya right now. I think Pro-life people all over the world, pro-family people all over the world need to be aware of what is going on in Kenya. Particularly our friends here in the United States in the pro-life movement. I think you are going to be sorry but glad to know, about the information that Dr. Wahome is going to be sharing with us. Dr. Ngare, thank you so much for being with us today.

Dr. Ngare

Thank you very much, it’s a pleasure.

Dr. Morse

Yes great! So, to start with, can you just tell us a little about your association, The Kenyan Catholic Dr.’s Association, because most people won’t have heard of it or won’t know what your mission is.

Dr. Ngare

Well, the Kenyan Catholic Dr.’s Association is an association that brings together Doctors who are catholic, who have taken a vow to practice medicine guided by the catholic faith. So, there are many doctors who are Catholics, but not all doctors who are Catholics can be a member of the association. See you must take a vow that you will serve the medical profession guided by the teachings of the catholic church. We specifically take the old and bastardized hypocritic oath that allows us to practice hypocritic medicine.

Dr. Morse

Oh golly, I recently interviewed Dr. Thomas Hilgers who explained to us that American Doctors don’t take the hypocritic oath anymore.

Dr. Ngare

Yes, and the few who do, it has been altered very many times to remove anything that would be considered anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia. So, a lot has changed. We use the old version.

Dr. Morse

So, you are actually more in tune with the ancient western tradition that goes back to the Greeks. You’re actually more Western than the West.

Dr. Ngare

Laughter*

Dr. Morse

Right? We’ve abandoned our roots over here. That was a beautiful thing that the Greeks came up with before Christ. They figured out that the medical profession had to first do no harm. Dr. Ngare, the reason that I wanted to have you on the program is that I read a couple of things that concern me, and I think will concern American pro-life people. But all of them have to do with population control and abortion, Contraception, related issues. So just to give people some perspective, Kenya has a fertility rate of 3.57 children per woman. In your opinion does Kenya have a population problem? And if so what is the population problem in Kenya?

Dr. Ngare

Well to be honest? Kenya does not have a population problem. In fact, the whole of Africa doesn’t have a population problem. When you look at the world statistics, the world does not have a population problem. What we have is a problem of resource distribution. If you fly over our country you’ll find a lot of land that is not occupied, just like if you flew over the US. There is a lot more than can support the current population. A problem is that there is somebody who is hell bent to reduce the world population, and especially the population of the people in Africa and that seems to be the biggest driver in today’s issue. We all know the population explosion story was a big hoax that has already been proved in the theory didn’t make sense, and what every he described didn’t happen. But there is somebody who took that and ran with it and is spreading a lot of lies.

Now we have seen countries who have taken up what we are being fed with in terms of population control who have negative population growth. Especially the Scandinavian Countries. They will not be able to replace themselves even if they started having six or eight children. We need a big robust population, so the idea is, if you look at human being as a resource, then you want bigger numbers to make sure they remain productive. If you look at the human numbers as a threat, the idea is to reduce the numbers.

Dr. Morse

Right Right.

Dr. Ngare

So, whoever is you know, perpetuating that agenda about population explosion basically has reduction in numbers as their intention.

Dr. Morse

Yes. Do you know, I don’t know if you are familiar with the late Julian Simon who is a professor at the university of Maryland, who wrote a book called “The Ultimate Resource” which meant that Human Beings were the ultimate resource and more people is a good thing and not a bad thing.

7:10 Dr. Ngare

And we would agree with him that all we need to do is insure that they are morally upright, and we’re good

Dr. Morse

Right right and so the family members are taking care of one another and not being left behind for strangers or for the government to take care of. So now, the thing that got my attention is that there is an attempt in Kenya to change the Kenyan Law, the constitution. It’s my understanding that right now the right to life is in the Kenyan constitution, is that correct? Can you tell people about that?

Dr. Ngare

Yes, we have that in article 26 of the bill of rights of the constitution. It makes it very clear that life of a person begins at conception, and that every person has a right to life. It’s a very unique article because it is one of the few that specified that the pre-born person can be referred to as a person in law. So, the conception starting —The life of the person starting at conception and every person having a right to life means that in the Kenyan constitution, the pre-born person is protected under the law.

Dr. Morse

Yes, and there is a move afoot by some of the population control people to try to change Kenyan law. So, can you tell people about that in general, what they are up to, and what particularly is going on right now?

Dr. Ngare

Well, during run-up to the constitution that we currently have that was made in 2010, there were forces from the population control movement through ICPD through the UN and other systems that sponsored people to fight that consensus. The Article 26 ended up with those two portions that I mentioned that were pushed by the pro-life people, but we had and article —Article 260 that was pushed by the so-called progressive forces, and that article says that abortion is not permitted unless recommended by a trained health professional. There is need for emergency treatment for the life or health of the mother.

Now the interpretation of that article is what they are using to try and expand access to abortion. So yeah, the article to us is very clear. It has always been the opinion of the trained health professional that determined that the pregnancy would be terminated or not. This is not necessarily bound to the gestation of the baby. Our argument is simple, the constitution is not a medical document. Abortion just means bringing to an end prematurely. So, they wanted it read differently. To them abortion is just the same as a medical term or whatever is described by them. In which case health professionals would be allowed to decide whether to terminate a pregnancy or not, without due regard to the world of the little one.

Dr. Morse

And so, then the question of maternal mortality becomes an important question. Because if the life of the mother is at risk, and if you can make the claim that the life of the mother is often at risk and can’t be solved any other way —her life can’t be solved any other way other tha terminating the pregnancy— now you’ve opened the door to abortion. Is that really what the issue is coming down to?

11:05Dr. Ngare

Yes, the term “Health” when the life of the mother is in danger, or is in need of emergency treatment, is not a problem. But when they say the “health of the mother” Health becomes very wide, and it can be used in the wrong way. So, what has happened is that there have been two or three ills that we have been fighting from parliament because they have crafted bills that try to bring to life article 26 by providing that abortion can be given as a service. That is where the mischief is. We are very clear that the law as it reads right now, and the practice of medicine, and medical ethics, the law is clearly protecting the little one. Now there is an issue of course, we have been accused of trying to protect the life of the pre-born person, instead of the life of the mother. And nothing can be farther from the truth. I think that what we need to do is clearly distinguish between which right we are discussing. If we are discussing the right to life, let us discuss the right to life of both the baby and the mother. Both of them have a right to life. And therefore, the mother cannot decide when to kill the pre-born person. Just like she can’t decide when to kill her own child.

If you are going to consider the right to choice, then again, both of them have a right of choice, both of them have a right to choice. If the mother says she doesn’t want the child, then we need to ask the child if the child is ready to exist. And the child cannot protect or speak about themselves. In any society that considers itself morally upright will basically fight for the least powerful person. In this case that is the pre-born person. And we are saying it is possible for us to respect the right to the mother, as soon as the child is born, then she doesn’t have to take care of the baby. The child can be taken and put up for adoption and we can release her of any obligations.

Dr. Morse

Right, but she doesn’t have the right to take the life of the child either before or after the child is born.

Dr. Ngare

Yes, and again like we are saying, it is just a simple human mortal body. Life is precious. The mother has every right to say that she doesn’t want to look after the child, and we can’t force her to look after the child. But it would be wrong for anybody to say they are practicing medicine by killing that child as a response to the Mother’s request. Because that would be impossible to do if the baby was born.

Dr. Morse

So, then the issue become, how often does this conflict really arise? What is the maternal mortality in Kenya? How likely is it that a Mother’s life is threatened by the continuation of pregnancy? Now as I mentioned I interviewed Dr. Thomas Hilgers a little bit ago, and he has been delivering babies for 40 years —like you he is an OBGYN— and I said, “Dr. Hilgers how many babies —how many mothers have you lost in that 40-year career?” and he said, “None. I have never lost a mother. I have never had a mother so —and I have dealt with crazy pregnancies.” Because he deals with high risk people and stuff like that. So, tell us, give us a little perspective on healthcare in Kenya. How often is it that a mother’s life is seriously threatened by the continuation of her pregnancy?

Dr. Ngare

Actually, the biggest challenge we have in Kenya and the rest of Africa is hemorrhage —blood loss during or after delivery is the most common killer of mothers. And this is followed by hypertensive disease in pregnancy, and sepsis. When you look at any pregnancy loss contributing to maternal mortality, it would be about 9% or less. What has happened is that those estimates, which are made by foreign NGO’s that come and do research here with wild estimations of maternal death, are what they pedal around with the ministry of health, and they put them in newspapers and they scare people. And they make abortion seem like it is a major concern. Of course, we don’t want to lose any mothers for whatever cost. But if we could sort out the problem of availability of blood, and mothers delivering in health institutions, we would actually reduce maternal mortality by almost half.

Dr. Morse

Right Right. That is the thing, there are other solutions other than killing the baby early term. And one of the problems we have over here in the US, is that we have legal abortions, and they are all supposed to be safe. But mothers having hemorrhages after their abortions and being very poorly treated with follow up care. This is one of the big scandals that the Pro-life movement calls attention to in the US, that nobody in the mainstream media wants to talk about, that sometimes people die from their abortions. So, tell us more, tell us more.

Dr. Ngare

The truth is, whatever the degree of risk abortion has, even assume say you terminate a pregnancy at 12 or 13 weeks, you would lose just 1% of the patients, the thing is once you make it legal, and now you don’t just have 100 people going through the procedure, you have 1,000 or 100,000 that 1% increases. The idea would be that it’s shameful for us as human being to be debating the question about a pregnancy after it has occurred, every adult, male and female, know that sexual intercourse leads to pregnancy. For people to engage and then say that they are shocked or surprised that they are pregnant, really sounds very very unfortunate. So, people have to learn to make good choices. And we are not going to take care of their bad choices by killing their children that they bring into this world. So, I think it is something that we just need to get very clear

Dr. Morse

Yes Yes. In one sense of the word, the numbers don’t matter, because the principle at stake is a principle that we have to defend regardless of the numbers. But the numbers do help us point out, well where should we be looking if we are trying to save both the mother and the baby, what should we be doing? And killing the baby is obviously a non-starter.

Dr. Ngare

In short, if you look at the —even the countries where abortion has been legalized, you realize that up to 90% of the time it is never the life or the health of the mother that is at risk. Most of them are people who are opting for abortion because it is legally available. In which case it makes nonsense of this claim that says, “It is the health of the mother we are worried about.” But even if we come to a basic understanding of medicine —because medicine is basically about the diagnosis treatment and prevention of disease— if a mother comes to me because she is very distressed, she has a crisis pregnancy, and she is wading in anxiety disorders or she might be depressed. If I take her history and examine her, my diagnosis will eventually be, this is a mother with a normal pregnancy who is suffering depression.

The treatment cannot be “Kill the baby” you see, whatever principle you use, whether you use medicine or common sense, the idea would basically be: treat the depression. Treat the anxiety, alleviate that which allow her to give up her child. But it can never be, Kill you baby.

The few times where you have, say an ectopic pregnancy. Where the mother has an ectopic pregnancy the baby is alive, you’ve done a scan, you can see the heart beat, but she is already bleeding, and you know that this will cause death. Then that doesn’t qualify as an abortion. Because the ectopic pregnancy is not a normal pregnancy. And when you go in as Dr. to work on that you are treating the mother, you are not killing the child.

Dr. Morse

Right Right. The pregnancy —This is not a normal pregnancy. This is not a viable pregnancy pretty much no matter what you do. But it is interesting though, that the claims that, “oh we’re all about helping the mother, we’re all about protecting the mother’s health.” That has led people to make other kinds of claims that are not necessarily accurate. And I have a sense that these same NGOs are exaggerating the extent of maternal mortality in order to justify this reinterpretation of the constitution. Is that right? Do you think they are exaggerating maternal mortality?

Dr. Ngare

Yes. They did that. There was a study that was carried out —I think it was carried out in 2003, I think it was repeated in 2012— that they keep quoting. Where they estimate that there was almost 400,000, or something like that, abortions happening in Kenya. They would claim then that abortion is a large, the third largest, that a third of maternal mortality is caused by abortion.

Dr. Morse

Illegal abortions? Illegal unsafe abortions.

Dr. Ngare

Yes, I try very hard not to use the term safe abortion because it is an oxymoron. You can’t call anything safe when the baby dies 100% of the time. There are many women who get psychological and emotional damage. Even if they don’t get physical injury. So it will never be safe. Therefore, in this country, both “safe” and “unsafe” abortion are illegal in this country. So, it doesn’t matter who does it. It doesn’t matter in what place they do it, the fact that they take the life of an innocent pre-born person is inadmissive.

So, they came up with this study, and the statistics, they use a very interesting methodology. It is called “The abortion incidence complication methodology” and I forwarded you a link, and maybe let the viewers do their own reading.

Dr. Morse

Yes, we will definitely link right to that study. And it was a doozy. I mean the truth is they don’t know. So, they are drawing a whole chain of inferences from one or two things they do know.

Dr. Ngare

Yes, they just expand and multiply this multiplication thing they do and come up with all sorts of weird stuff. So, we do not have that number of deaths they claim from abortion. And the abortions —even the abortions they discuss in the study— if you note these they were mainly spontaneous abortions (miscarriages). And then they say, “oh these are the spontaneous abortions then we estimate these must have been the unsafe ones” and they come up with some cooked broth.

Dr. Morse

Just to be clear for people who aren’t MDs —which most of our listeners are not going to be Doctors— The terms “spontaneous abortion” is the technical term for a miscarriage, okay? So, the differences between spontaneous abortion and induced abortion which is what we are normally —when you hear the term abortion, you are thinking of induced, but the medical term spontaneous abortion means that pregnancy ended midterm, spontaneously. No human agency caused that to happen. So that’s what is so, they came up with a guesstimate. They came up with how many were induced and how many were spontaneous. And all of this is based on women coming to the hospital with complications from pregnancy. Isn’t that where all this is from?

Dr. Ngare

Yes

Dr. Morse

So, tell us about that a little bit.

24:58 Dr. Ngare

Many women have come for treatment, seeking treatment because they have lost their pregnancies. Then these organizations go and ask doctors, and then they take the number of women in the country and they estimate how many are in the child rearing age, and they just come up with some wild stuff.

Dr. Morse

Right

Dr. Ngare

Now the way that they have done it in other countries, the estimates are so high, that even the countries that eventually legalize abortion, would never get to that number. And therefore, they are able to justify that.

Dr. Morse

Oohhh. So, they’ve cooked it from the start to say, “look how much safer we are now.”

Dr. Ngare

Yes. So even if you legalize abortion, you never get those kinds of numbers.

Dr. Morse

Right Right.

Dr. Ngare

So, it is a very clever trick from them.

Dr. Morse

Mhmm. So, tell us Dr. Ngare. Who are these people who are so intent on changing the laws in Kenya? Are these Kenyan people? Or are these people from outside? Who is this?

Dr. Ngare

Well, they have a come in an umbrella that they are calling “The Sexual Reproductive Health and Rights Advocates” So they are local NGOs that are sponsored by foreign NGOs. Some of those NGOs you are quite familiar with. Marie Stopes International, Planned Parenthood, then we have some operative in the UN Arms. Especially the UN PA. They organized the first ICPD conference in 1994 in Cairo Egypt. And that is where they introduced all this language of reproductive rights, you know, sexual rights and stuff. And then all the goals of the UN, the SDGs. The Sustainable Development Goals of the UN. They managed to push in that language through that. So what happens is that we get documents being brought by the ministry of health, coming from the UN and the UN Bodies and saying that these are the commitments the world has made, you know. Abortion is part of sexual reproductive health and rights, and these need to be implemented. Then they also come in through policy —they put in money and support the government to review policies. So anytime the government in the ministry of health is reviewing policies, in reproductive health or something. Or they want a policy for adolescent health, they put in a lot of money they offer to give you technical assistance, they pay their technical experts and make sure that all the staff goes on in there.

Now the sexual reproductive health and rights is actually an ideology.

Dr. Morse

Yes

Dr. Ngare

It is an ideology it is a culture. It believes that sex is for pleasure and everyone should be able to experience this right from children at 4 years or 5 years of age. It is being used to sexualize children. It is being used to legalize homosexuality. They want to legalize prostitution, they want children as young as 10 to be put on contraceptives. And a whole lot of stuff that is completely against what Kenyans stand for, even in the constitution. And it is against our African culture, and culture practices. And it is also against the faith of the majority of people who still believe strongly in the tradition of family.

So, they would be basically forcing, imposing cultural practices that are not for us. Now whether they call it progressive or otherwise is their business, but it is basically wrong to come with a culture and practice and impose it on people.

Dr. Morse

So, are there people, a substantial number of people from within Kenya who agree with these people? Or is it a very small minority? Who are they? Who are their local advocates, or the people who are really carrying water for this program locally?

Dr. Ngare

Main ones would just be the NGOs that they sponsor. So, if I went to a non-government-organization that is say Family Options, that is sponsored by ITPF, you’ll find a few individuals whose livelihood is dependent on the employment and resources. But when you go to the Kenyan people —The last time the Kenya Christian Professional forum did a survey, over 90% of the people said they do not want abortion legalized. And almost the same percentage did not want Homosexuality legalized. So, the Kenyans on the ground are very clear what they want.

 

Ngare Interview 30:00

Dr. Morse

Are there a substantial number of people within Kenya who agree with these people? Or is it a very small minority? Who are they? Who are their local advocates? Or the people hwo are really carrying water for this program.

Dr. Ngare

The main ones would just be the NGOs that they sponsor. So it is a non governmental organization that is like, that is sponsored, say, by the IPPF, you’ll find that few Kenyans who are dependent on their employment on these facilities. Well, when you go to the Kenyan people, the last time the Kenyan Christian Forum did a survey, over 90% of the people said they do not want abortion legalized, and almost a similar percentage said they do not want homosexuality legalized. So, they Kenyans on the ground are very clear on what they want. And the people who are pushing this agenda, don’t need to convince the Kenyan people, all they need is one or two corrupt people in certain key ministries, and then, you know, in the local schools agree to take some little money and do the ground work.

Dr. Morse

Yes, and so what you really have is foreign interference in elections.

Dr. Ngare

Actually, the whole concept is foreign interference. We see…let me give you some little contradictions. There is a practice that is called female circumcision that used to be practice in some cultures in this country, where there is a physical cut in the genital area. And the religion and the western world came and told us this practice is not good, it is hurting the women. And basically, that practice is dying and people believe that it is not a good practice. So it is not that we don’t take from the West what is good, but now the same West is telling us, a man can tell me that he is trapped in a woman’s body and come and ask for surgery to transform into a woman. Now whereas the other one is called female genital mutilation, what is the difference, if you are going to cut of the genital organs of a man, and implant breasts in him and inject him with hormones so that he can look like a woman, that is being described as “transgendersim.”

Dr. Morse

Right! But that is genital mutilation! It is genital mutilation!

Dr. Ngare:

It is gross mutilation because we do not have a woman, what you have is a severely mutilated man.

Dr. Morse

And so the ideology of the West is coming in to your country and imposing itself from the top down and it really is foreign interference with elections. And I want to emphasize that point to especially American viewers, because we’ve had so much talk in the United States on whether Russia is interfering with our elections or whether China is interfering with our elections, and here we have really a long standing practice of the international, so called, community, of the international agencies interfering in the domestic affairs of countries around the world. And I know this is not unique to Kenya, but I’m happy that we have you to explain this, because I know it went on in the Philippines and it’s going on in Uganda. I visited Uganda not too long ago and I was shocked by the amount of propaganda that I saw everywhere; on the billboards, on the TV, TV commercials, I even saw people wearing T shirts that obviously someone had given them, you know? Just promoting this message that modern birth control is a good thing, and it is safe and, you know, just these buzzwords, that obviously were not invented in Uganda. I mean, you could just tell, it was, it came in from, it was parachuted in to the culture, by the UN agencies and so on and so forth, in exchange for lots and lots of aid money. And so, I think, I would like to go there, if you don’t mind, Dr. I’d like for you to talk a little bit about the way in which aid money is used as bribery to try to change the culture of this sovereign state, let’s say it. Kenya is a sovereign nation and they have a right to rule themselves. How is aid money being used to corrupt your processes, your self-determination processes.

Dr. Ngare,

Well, one of them is basically our elections attract a lot of foreign interest. And especially, at least, in funding. We have seen the same kind of infiltration in our schools. We have seen professors in the medical schools, being part of this reproductive health and rights advocacy system, and they, right from their post-graduate studies, and research work, and all of these are basically sponsored by these same bodies. We’ve also seen the same kind of infiltration of schools of law, where we have a lot of, again, people, lecturers, who have taken on these kind of attitudes. Then you go to the judiciary, and you’ll find that the research department receives large funding from, again, the same NGOs, large fundings with support for technical expertise. Then you come to ministries, like Health, and you find monies given to the Ministry of Health, towards, say, developing policies and the policies allow for giving contraceptives to children, then they will come and provide technical expertise and money to start having adolescent clinics pop up all over the place. We have a body that is called the NCPD – The National Council for Population and Development. Every time they develop policies, you find those sneaked in, and they’re pushing the same language, and then come back with the UN document, saying, “The UN Passed this, and now you need to effect it.” And so its, very deep rooted, and you find that almost every sector of government including the educational sector.

Dr. Morse

We could really call this “Cultural Colonialism” or

Dr. Ngare

Yes, yes, Cultural Colonialism for sure, with a very clear agenda. If we take up abortion, or if we take up contraceptives, especially for the teenagers, if we allow homosexuality to come through, we allow prostitution we legalize, then basically this experiment has worked before in the Netherlands. The Netherlands has reproductive or fertility rate of 0.6 something. They are getting less than one child per married couple. And their fertility rate is not even going to allow them to replace themselves. This has been proven to be very effective in population reduction. And that is the reason why Africa is being pushed to take out those things.

Dr. Morse

Yes, it is very interesting. We’ve done these experiments in the United States also. And here at the Ruth Institute, we track the human misery that is caused by these experiments. So, just to take one of the things that you mentioned. If you allow contraception for unmarried minors, you know, children, teenagers, what you have to back that up with removing the parents from the picture so the children have their own rights to see the doctor without their parents interfering. So you undermine the relationship between the parent and the child. And you know, there are many reasons why parents and children need each other, but you’ve now undermined that whole relationship in a very substantial way. And we’ve seen the way that undermines the family itself and so on and so forth. The other thing that I want to comment on is that what you’re describing is the systematic corruption of the professions in your country. And I want you and your colleagues to be aware that in the United States, pretty much every profession has been corrupted by the Sexual Revolution, all the way down to the school teachers and the librarians and the social workers. Everybody’s on board to push this agenda, you know? And it is, you are very, very wise to resist it. And I just want you to know that there are plenty of Americans that agree with you guys, you know? That’s part of why I wanted you on the show so you could know that we are not all on board with the crazy stuff that our government is so repsonbile for in so many ways. And then when you talk about the ministries of health and the different, the education ministries, and the way in which that’s all separated from electoral politics. You can’t vote those guys out. Once the Ministry of Health puts something in place, that’s going to outlast any administration. And in the United States, we have now come to call that the “Deep State”, the “Administrative State” – it is immune to any kind of public oversight. And so, again, you guys are very wise, to be putting the brakes on all of that, because it is not going to do you any good. And I will say, as an American, I apologize for what our country has done to your country in this area. It is not right.

Dr. Ngare

Well, I think when you look at humanity, as just humanity without the borders and colors, I think we all have a moral responsibility, because none of this would happen if everybody stood up for what was right. And you find the Ministry of Health, they’ll probably be dealing with two or three people out of very many employees. But for those two people to be able to do what they’re doing, they have very many people who are quiet. They call themselves good people, but they will not speak out, they will not condemn these things happening. I think all of us must take it very seriously, that this is not a fight of one or two people. It is a fight for the survival of the human race. And if you don’t see it that way, then there is a risk of laxity, which is the only thing they need for them to continue to progress.

Dr. Morse

So, That’s a great place for us to turn the conversation back to your organization, the Kenyan Catholic Doctor’s Association. And I think you’re also involved in another professional organization, isn’t that right? The Christian, I forget what its called.

Dr. Ngare

It’s called the Kenya Christian Professionals Forum

Dr. Morse

That’s it. That’s what I’m thinking of. So, tell us a little bit about how your organization and perhaps the Catholic Church, has tried to resist some of these things.

Dr. Ngare

The Kenyan Catholic Doctor’s Association keeps its eyes and ears open for any stuff that is likely to interfere with life or to interfere with family, and especially in the field of medicine. One of the biggest fights we had with the government, is in 2014, when the World Health Organization was running a program for eradication of neonatal tetanus, and in this country, they came and asked that all women in child bearing age, from the age of 14 to the age of 49, should be given two injections of the tetanus vaccine. That caused a bit of a concern. Number one, we were already immunizing all pregnant women with two injections of tetanus given during the pregnancy. Now, they come and tell us that even the ones who are not pregnant from the age of 14, all the way to 49, whether you’re pregnant or not. The second was that the injections were to be given every six months. And they were to be given four or give doses. Now the problem was, as the Kenyan Catholic Doctors Association, we were aware that such vaccines had been given in South American in 1992. And there was concern that there were fertility regulating tetanus vaccines.

Dr. Morse

So hold on right there. Just so people understand what you’re saying. Neonatal Tetanus is a disease that sometimes babies have in unsanitary conditions, they might have tetanus, and if they get tetanus it is deadly. It is bad. So you guys had a program in place for immunizing the pregnant mothers to deal with that problem. And then along comes somebody with a new plan with a vaccine that you are suspicious of, that it may have a sterilization or fertility reducing additive included along with the tetanus vaccine. Is that…am I getting that right?

Dr. Ngare

Yes. And we managed to get a few of those vials and test them for the human chorionic gonadotropin, and we found some to be positive.

Dr. Morse

So it was a substance that would prevent the baby from implanting in the womb properly. Is that what it amounted to?

Dr. Ngare

Yes. What happens is immediately the baby implants, the forming placenta tissue produces hCG that tells the ovary to produce progesterone, which is the pregnancy hormone. Now if you make sure that the antibodies destroy all the hCG, the babies produce, then what happens is that the signal to the mother that she is pregnant is interfered with. The minute that she doesn’t make the progesterone then she loses her pregnancy. And the antibodies are high enough, even her cycle doesn’t change. She continues to get normal periods; she doesn’t even know there is a baby implanted in her.

Dr. Morse

So what you all were concerned about in 2014, was this basically anti-fertility drug was being snuck in to the tetanus vaccination, and non-pregnant women, and this is why it is significant that they’re doing it to everybody, that they’re doing it without their knowledge, are going to be essentially sterilized.

Dr. Ngare

Yes, the thing is that when we tested and found it was the one we were able to confirm, this information was taken to the Catholic Bishops, who had allowed us to do this study. We gave them the reports, and the Ministry of Health declined to get involved, until much later. But you see the idea here is, if somebody can sponsor a program like that, where women can be vaccinated that will limit their fertility without knowledge and even believing what was done is good for them, the only thing that we can say about such is that it is evil. There is exactly no other way to describe it. This is not medicine, it is witchcraft.

Dr. Morse

Right, right, and so in that instance in 2014, did, were you guys able to stop the program? It seems to me that I remember reading about this program. Didn’t the Bishops tell people “Don’t take this vaccine?”

Dr. Ngare

Yes. The bishops advised people not to take the vaccine. The Kenya Catholic Doctor’s Association advised people to not take the vaccine. And that brought in a lot of issues. In fact, Dr. Karange and I were summoned to the medical board, which is the board that treaties the doctors, telling us that they would take disciplinary action against us. And once we presented the same evidence and they could see what we were talking about. So, what eventually happened is that they chose to stop the vaccination campaigns. And I think in 2017 they declared that the country was now free of neonatal tetanus.

Dr. Morse

What? Wait a minute! So they came in with this big campaign, and you guys caught them, and they took their campaign away, and then all of a sudden, there is no more neonatal tetanus?

Dr. Ngare

Nope. All of a sudden, now the country is cured of neonatal tetanus and we don’t need the extra vaccinations anymore and we are back to the practice that we had before.

Dr. Morse

Well, so first of all, Good for you guys that you stood up to them! And you got them to back down. You know, I mean, good for you, that ou did it. If you guys hadn’t been there, demanding to test those vials, and if you hadn’t had the Bishops backing you up, they probably would have been going on to this day, huh?

Dr. Ngare

Yes, and that is why it is important for everybody to engage. It can’t be the fight for just a few people. The more people stand up against this kind of imperialism, the better for everybody in the world. It is not just in Kenya, the globalists everywhere, they have their agenda, it is very clear in their mind. People need to stand out and just do what is right, otherwise, we’ll have no humanity left.

Dr. Morse

Well, I appreciate what you guys did. Now let me ask you guys about another question, and you might not want to answer this, so if you don’t want to answer this on the air or you want to take it out, we can do that. So, let me just ask you. In Kenya, what is going on with the Coronavirus and the mitigation of it?

Dr. Ngare

Well, the Coronavirus is a very normal virus. Whether it is created or natural is another story. But the idea is that we are having cases of coronavirus infection and measures have been put in place like everybody else: wash your hands, wear masks. There was initially a lockdown that was put in place. In medicine we generally give hope. Assume my patient has a cancer and it is and all signs point to it as the fact that only 10% of the people survive beyond five years, it means that the risk of death is 90%. As a doctor, I have two ways I could break the ways to my client. I could tell my client that the chance that she will survive is 10% and we are going to do everything in our power to try and make sure you are going to survive this kind of cancer. Or I could go ahead and tell her that all the chances of death are 90% and there is no hope here and just prepare for death. Now the statistics remain exactly the same, but one keeps hope and gives a person energy to fight back. The other one destroys hope literally. It is therefore incredible that once a week, we have to have the government announcing how many new cases of coronavirus have been reported and how many people have died, how many are in the ICU, and this is repeated every week like clockwork, in fact it is daily. It is daily, I think 3:00 in the afternoon is the report of how many people have died. Now if you look at number of people who have died from COVID-19 and assuming those numbers are correct, there is still fewer than the number of road accidents in this country. They are fewer than the number that die of HIV in this country. They are fewer than the number of people that die of malaria in this country. So, there is fear that is being generated in people. There is, you know, people are being made to fear to a point where if the Minister of Transport every day woke up and told us how many people die of road accidents, no body would drive a car. So you can see there is an agenda of inducing fear and there is the acceleration of things being produced all over the place, and the question then it begs is, what are we being prepared for? It just looks like, feels like, we are all being prepared for vaccination. Nothing will go back to normal until we go back to vaccination. You can see an agenda being laid there. The last thing about coronavirus is there is now enough information for us to be able to reduce the death rates we know vitamin D deficiency is a major problem. We know the onset of anti-coagulant prevention is very important. We know that the secretions in the lungs are an issue. So there are many interventions using drugs that are already available, that can actually help us reduce the death rates if only we are allowed to use the first principles of medicine and the understanding of medicine to make interventions work. That, I find, is lacking. The medical interventions that people have described that we can try and save life.

Dr. Morse

And it is almost, we have come full circle, to where we began with the Hippocratic oath of first do no harm and how to preserve the life of the patient. And this is an oath. It is a sacred calling. And in a way, you guys are more Western than we are. You have embraced the good part of the Western tradition and are taking it more to heart than some of us are.

Dr. Ngare

I think it is good to be open to what is good. But I think it is wrong to put it all in one jacket and say one size fits all. And if you don’t do what we do on this side, you aren’t good or you won’t get aid. There is mischief in that.

Dr. Morse

Well, I think this is a good place to stop. Dr. Wahome is there any place people can reach you? If our followers are interested in what you’re doing, is there a website where they can learn more about the activities where they can learn more about the activities of the Kenyan Catholic Doctors Association?

Dr. Ngare

Yes, we have a website, but is not very active and I’m sure it could look much better than it does.

Dr. Morse

Oh, well, let’s, I’ll make you a promise, if you keep me informed of what you’re doing, I’ll make sure people know what you’re doing, because I know a lot of people are going to be blessed by this conversation. Dr. Wahome Nagare, thank you so much for being my guest on the Dr. J. show.

Dr. Ngare

Thank you very much for having me, and have a good day.

Dr. Morse

Thank you.